Chicken Keeping Food For Thought... And a Winner!

By Leigh:

Every now and then, I’m going to infuse this blog with little bits and pieces from the perspective of a Chicken Newbie… (that would be me). I feel very lucky to have such a wonderful mentor in Bee – and some other “Old Timers” that we’ll be hearing from later on down the road.

You see, when I first became interested in keeping chickens, I wanted to do so for a number of reasons, not the least of which was to have my own source of organic, free range eggs.

Ironically, information junkie that I am, the more I read for the purposes of learning how to raise my own chickens, the more I learned about the use of chemicals and medications…

So… if I de-worm my chickens 4 times a year with chemical de-wormer, if I put antibiotics in their water at the first sign of a ruffled feather and if I rub my flock down with chemicals to treat or prevent mites and lice, how would I be eating organic eggs?

I wouldn’t be!

It was only by chance (or fate) that I happened to stumble upon an informational forum thread on a popular chicken website… and I found Bee and her no-nonsense, all natural wisdom. This was what I had been looking for all along! If I wanted to use chemicals and antibiotics, what would be the purpose in raising my own chickens? Why not just buy chemical and antibiotic-laden eggs at the store?

So how does this chicken newbie do things differently than she would have if she’s followed the most common advice out there?

• I don’t use poop boards or clean out my coop daily. I use the deep litter method which is healthier (and more natural for my flock.
• I do NOT useDiatomaceous Earth (DE) in my coop or on my chickens… ever. I don’t want to kill off those good nematodes that feed on the larvae of mites and lice!
• I provide wood ash for my birds to take dust baths in. Wood ash kills mites and lice, and my chickens love to roll about in it. And it’s free. Can’t beat “free!”
• I feed my birds chopped pumpkin seedsevery now and then – it’s a natural, organic de-wormer… and the chickens think it’s a delicious treat.
• I ferment the chicken’s feed – they are better able to absorb the nutrients in this feed, and I’ve cut my feed costs by 2/3rds!
• I use unpasteurized apple cider vinegarin their fermented feed and in their water. The U-ACV has many benefits, including making my chicken’s digestive tract a “hostile environment” for parasites. It may also change the pH and mean more of their fertilized eggs will result in female offspring. Not proven, but I’ll report back on that when I start hatching.
• I understand now that if kept healthy, most chickens with good genetics will not succumb to common illnesses like coccidiosis.
• All critters – including humans and chickens – carry parasites and bacteria. It’s a fact of life. It is only when there is an overgrowth of either that we have problems. Balance is the key! Living in a sterile coop is no better than living in filth. The most natural and organic way to achieve health is by finding that middle ground where a symbiotic relationship is created with both bugs and bacteria – not too many and not too few… just the way life was created and developed on this planet.

So there’s my perspective on some of what I have learned so far.

Oh… and you’re still probably wondering who won the key chain?

Drum roll please…

Commenter #7 – Aoxa

Anonymous November 21, 2012 10:50 AM

Wow! Awesome post :D

I often get eggs with blood on the shell and never considered it abnormal. Usually it is from pullets coming into lay or really big eggs like Bee said. :)

-Aoxa

(And if you’re wondering, multiple comments by one person were counted as one, and MY posts don’t count. I also didn’t count those that were just a question about another comment.)

So congratulations, Aoxa! Please email me at shabbychicken@hotmail.com with your mailing address and your choice of keychains!

Leigh –

 *

Ask Bee - Help! My Chickens Have Worms / Parasites!

Dear Bee, 

I'm very interested in going a more natural route.  I want my girls (and boys) to be as healthy as possible - and I definitely don't want to have to keep treating them with medicines if I can avoid it.

Presently I have 14 chickens of varying ages from 10 weeks to just over a year.  I have a 5'x10' raised coop for night time with a 15' x 10' secure run around it that I hardly ever use.  There is an additional less secure 50' x 25' run that I rarely keep them penned in.  I prefer to let them roam about the 1 acre yard and find what they please to eat/do.  I feed the older ones Layena Crumbles & oyster shell in containers that they have access to at all times.  The younger ones had Chick Starter when they were very young and then were switched to Flock Raiser at 8 weeks of age.  I've noticed that the older girls’ feathers are looking a little ratty lately and my oldest is going through a severe molt right now.  I've also noticed 5 of my 8 layers have what I call "dirty butts" - and they have a white creamy substance that comes on their eggs from time to time.  I'm thinking it is gleet - and I've ordered the Nustock for treating it.  I've put the Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in their waterer - but the kind I have doesn't have The Mother (live cultures) - so I will get some of that soon.  I have a manure box with roost overhead and the box is filled with Sweet PDZ which makes it easy to scoop daily.  I do a modified deep litter on the floor - in that I use pine shavings and keep it stirred - adding more shavings until it builds up and spring comes.  Then I clean it all out and start again.

The only really bad incident so far was that over the summer maybe one or two of my girls had roundworms in their manure.  I treated the flock with Valbazen because I didn't know what else to do to help them and that was the advice.  Should I have done something different to treat them after finding the worms?  I guess I don't really understand why they would suddenly get worms - unless the worms have been multiplying over time and this was just the first time I was able to see them.  Would having a FF (fermented feed) diet help reduce their chances of getting worms? 

I've ordered the following that will hopefully get here soon - Nustock and Bragg ACV. My goal is to start feeding FF once I get the Bragg and to treat the girls with Nustock for what may be gleet.  I think I'll start doing FF with the layer feed for the layers and the Flock Raiser for the littles.  Should I slowly add or change things or just go to it right away? 

Thank you!

Bee's Answer:

I'd change from doing a modified deep litter into doing a true deep litter, do away with the manure box and let those droppings fall so they may start developing a good deep litter system for you.  This will help with worm ova that are shed and keep them from being recycled, as the beneficial bugs in the deep litter prey upon parasite larvae. 

I wouldn't use a commercial dewormer as I believe all it does is let the strong worms survive.  Those that survive the chemical will only reproduce to make more worms that are able to withstand the chemical.  This requires that you keep switching your chemicals around and eventually you have naturally selected a super worm to live in your chickens that can survive any chemical preparation that you throw at it. 

I'd use garlic, pumpkin seeds, soap... all things that worms do not build up a resistance or tolerance to.  I'd start FF... it does indeed cultivate a bowel environment that is not conducive to worm growth and reproduction. 

If the soils in your runs and pens are barren, I'd recondition those soils, even though you don't use them often, the chickens are still on them when they live. 

I wouldn't add things slowly... I'd start the FF as soon as you can, the ACV in the water, I'd see about getting some pumpkin seeds for them... should be easy this time of year.  If they don't want to eat them, dry them and grind them up and put it in the feed.  Garlic is easy... garlic powder sprinkled on the feed. 

If you use soap in the water for worms, I use Shaklee's soap... it's all natural and made of soy plant proteins and it only requires the tiniest drop, as it is concentrated to the max.  If you think it isn't safe for animals, Joel Salatin uses it exclusively for all this animals, I've used it for mine a time or two when I got cows that needed reconditioning from an outside source... and I've even ingested it myself before I gave some to the animals.  They used to use Shaklee's to fatten turkey and cattle over in Europe and using it to wash things was secondary. 

Dawn dish washing liquid works the same if you want to go that route.  Actually, any soap works the same...my grandma used lye soap in her dishwater and gave that to the hogs and chickens.

My granny used to feed her pigs and chickens her dish water... which had lye soap in it.  She said it made them healthier but I doubt she knew just why.  The soap acts as a surfactant to internal parasites, dissolving the protective coating of oil on their skins and allowing the gastric juices to kill them.  I wish I could show you pictures of a cow that had Shaklee's and ACV for reconditioning at my place that would blow your mind.  You wouldn't believe it was the same cow and in such a short amount of time! 

Good luck and happy chicken keeping –

Bee

Gnarly Bunch - Chapter 3 - 9/20/12

9/20/12

Today's regimen started out as planned but took a sudden turn.....

Fed them cooked pumpkin with cottage cheese topper and sprinkled a little pepper flakes on top.  All good food.  They slowly started to eat it and finally consumed it but still slow.  They all move like they are in a dream....slow motion.  The worst hen stands in the corner and just purls...real low, like a whine.  She didn't even approach the food until all the others had eaten some.  She has one tail feather and the rest of her feathers look l like she was caught in a wood chipper. 

As I sat and watched these invalids stand or hunch around, walking like their feet hurt, I started to think of comfort.  I got out my old meat bird roost... sort of like a hammock that sits about 2 ft. off the ground.  I placed it in the coop and put fresh hay all across the hammock and also placed a hay bale next to it.  The birds immediately got up on this and either settled down or started to groom.  They jumped feebly from this roost into the nest boxes and shuffled around.  The rooster got in the nest and tried to call in some hens.  The rooster is so weak that he didn't even crow this morning... he can't even stand erect like a rooster normally would and like he always did in his finer days.  He wasregal and showy... now he looks like the loser in a fight with a lawn mower. 

I think that is one thing that is the most telling.  These birds are silent as ghosts.  No normal chicken sounds from the hens and only a little sound from the rooster as he tries to tempt the hens to eat or to nest.  It's pitiful, really.  Sort of like watching POWs with Stockholm syndrome. 

Then I started thinking about that.... and I opened the door and left it open.  If they are going to die, by golly, they are going to die FREE!  I don't care if they are too weak to avoid predators, these birds are going out of that coop and into the sunshine, fresh grass and fresh air.  Not one bird dashed for the door; as per usual for this flock after having been confined for any reason... they just stood there, dully staring into space.  I just left them and went back to the house.  As I passed the dog I instructed him to "watch chickens!"  ...he seemed glad to do it.  He's been too long without a job! 

I went up later and they were lying in the sun beside the coop, blinking and drowsy.  When I approached they got up and moved away...  these birds and I used to stretch out in the sun together, soaking it up like solar panels!  Folks used to drive by the house and stare at this grown woman and all her chickens, lying as if slain in the sun.  

As they moved away they encountered the edge of the woods...and something clicked.  They started to scratch, peck and, low but distinctly, I could hear that crooning sound that hens make when they are foraging......  Even the poorest, most nakedly weak hen came out of the coop and started to slowly forage in the leaves and underbrush.  They were eating clover and the soil, equally.  They were taking their first steps back to good health where it's the most easily found.... on healthy pasture/woodland. 

I put some green tomatoes in the coop and came down here to type.  When I checked later, they were all resting in their hammock and the tomatoes were picked clean. 

And so it begins.......  

As for the people that were keeping this flock… They didn't seem to want to give them up and then said they were planning to kill them and eat them.  Also said the rooster isn't any good because they tried to incubate some of the eggs and none of them hatched.  Gee...wonder if the rooster is infertile because you traumatized him by brutally chopping off his spurs, let him become so malnourished through parasite infestation that he can't even crow and his overall health is such that it's a miracle that he is alive?  I wouldn't feel like breeding either.....  

I offered to pay for them and I think they kind of felt ashamed at that point and let me take all of my original birds and a few of theirs.  I wanted to get them all but they wouldn't let them go...poor birds that were left behind.  Their rooster's feet were so infested with scale mites that you really couldn't see individual toes... his feet just looked like grotesque clubs of scaly mess.  That one I would have killed right away... he was in obvious distress. 

They aren't bad folks but, as I see so often in this world, their perception is a might skewed.  It's so easy to give good care to animals and humans alike but you would be surprised how often I've found some of my patients being cared for far worse than the family dog.  Most folks treat their dogs better than they treat some humans, so that road goes both ways in this life.  Some people can't see past what they want to give others what they need in life and that's pretty much the world over... these folks are no better or no worse than the average person you will meet on the street. 

P.M. Update: Well, the first full day is over and the birds are moving better.  Still slow and deathly quiet but they have foraged quite a bit, ate a good bit of food (green tomatoes, cottage cheese mixed with layer mash, pumpkin... all have been cleaned up), and are now bunking down.  When I left the coop 5 had actually made it to the high roost!!!   I could hear one of them softly singing the roosting song when I left them for the night.  Life will be good again... today was the beginning of good things for this old, tired flock. 

I've got my feed fermenting and built a feeder from rain guttering for tomorrow's feeding.  Tomorrow we are moving the whole darn coop to one side and into fresh grass/soil, into a brighter patch of sunlight ~ this coop has no flooring, just the ground. 

I'll be placing more roosts and making a high place for an open waterer.  I'm thinking I won't use a nipple waterer until spring... too late in the year to introduce a new concept and then have to take it away to use the heated bowl. 

After they work over the new grass floor and before winter, they will get a layer of pine shavings.  Hay bales will be added along the walls before it gets too cold and some plastic will be applied to keep the winds from whistling over these weak birds.  All forecasts say we will have a tough winter... we'll see how these birds make out when the snows are deep and nights are cold.  Should be a real test of their hardiness. 

Thank you all for your prayers and well wishes for these birds...God sees the sparrow when it falls and He watches over all things.  He brought me and my flock back together for a reason...I'm glad for someone or something that needs me right now.  Was feeling pretty useless lately....   

 
Gnarly Bunch - Chapter 4 - 9/21/12